Episode 06 - Pokémon TCG

Welcome to Jabber Pack! The podcast of 2 lovers discussing a wide variety of things and while showing footage of us playing random games in the background. In today’s episode, we were playing Lego Avengers. I’m pretty neutral when it comes to all things marvel, but if you like first couple avengers movies, you’ll enjoy this game too!

Howl is everyone doing? 

Like it or hate it, the Pokémon Trading Card game is really popular right now. Is it for all the wrong reasons, or are the negative aspects about it being overexaggerated? I don’t know, I just work here! But do join us as we discuss our personal experiences with it, both past and present.

Have you ever played the game? Do you collect the cards and, if you do, do you even like Pokémon or is it just a money-making lottery to you?

Last week, we mentioned that Alex (David) narrated an audio book! If you still wanted to check it out, here is a link to it!

https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Conspiracy-Within-Audiobook/

Thank you for checking this out! We hope to see you bark again soon! 

Our site: https://jabberpack.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

How is everybody doing? And welcome to Jabber Pack. I am Alex.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

And I am Rogue.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

And today we're going to be talking about the Pokemon Trading Card game. Um, so for those who don't know the game, it's exactly what it sounds like. Uh you buy these little packs, well, they come in different sizes, but uh, you know, mo just like any other game all surrounding the game Pokemon. Some people know there's an actual game you can play with the cards. Um people play it, some people don't. But the reason why we're talking about it today is it's exploded in popularity for better or for worse in the public eye recently online. And the question that uh we're putting out there is uh is there a problem with this recent explosion of popularity? Because a lot of people are calling the current environment toxic. Um there's a lot of uh newcomers to the game, which is great. Um it's good to see a lot of people getting interested in the game, but are they getting interested for the wrong reason? So, the question is, is the game toxic? Um in its current state, what's the problem, and what can we do about it if there is a problem? So, for a little bit of info into the current situation that a lot of people are getting upset at, uh there's been an explosion of people buying these cards in massive quantities, to the extent that it becomes nearly impossible for an average consumer to get their hands on any of them. Um now uh the question is, you know, is that any different from your usual collector's markets? Because you look at other things, and collecting has always been about uh trying to find the rare pieces of something, and then uh keeping them for your own sake, or more often than not, selling them to somebody who might find interest in them. Um, so uh how is this current market different from just a normal collector's market, if it's different at all?

SPEAKER_00 3:01

I have only a couple of thoughts personally in the matter, which is we with a lot of like collectors markets, uh uh anymore, a lot of things that are collected are trading cards. It's one of the most popular things to collect. Um but like I'll use the example of Magic the Gathering or the Disney trading card game that was created, I want to say, a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

There's a Disney trading card game?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

There is.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

It's actually something I've I've thought about getting some of, but color me surprised. You know, with any of those, you're able to walk into a store like Target or Walmart or any store that sells those cards, and you're gonna find two things. You're gonna find that there's a variety of sports cards, magic cards, and the Disney trading cards available, and you'll also find that you're you aren't going to find any Pokemon cards. And if you are there's starter decks, which is great. It gives people it gives people the option to actually get cards to actually play the game, you know, the trading the actual Pokemon trading card game. But you also know with a starter deck, you're not gonna get any rare cards. Any chance you have for rare cards, special cards, exclusive cards, you're not gonna get them in a deck in a starter deck. But that's all you'll find because of a massive issue of scalpers.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Because they will come in and and there's even you can look online, there's videos of people encountering them, which uh personally I think have more stage anyway. But you'll find people just as soon as Pokemon cards are put on the shelf, they will get a shopping cart and buy all of them. And they're only doing that to turn around and sell them for more money. I mean, yay, good on you for proving that you have more disposable income than the rest of us for being able to go out and buy all these Pokemon cards right up front. But then you're just turning into a royal jerk because you're making it so your average kid who maybe only has six dollars from their allowance that they worked all week for to get a pack of Pokemon cards, can't even do that because you want to turn around and sell it for ten bucks.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Yeah. And classic scalper behavior to because it's one defense I've heard some of these scalpers say is well, you're just being jealous because I take my profession seriously and I know how to get my hands on the goods. So it's not my fault that I got here first. You know, economies are first come, first serve when it comes to these things, so uh, you know, sucks to be you, little ten-year-old Timmy, who just wanted to get him some Pokemon cards.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Well, I I appreciate the storage that will actually set limits. Because I will say, yes, I'm part of the I I might be part of the quote unquote problem in some ways, because I do like buying Pokemon cards to collect them. I have since I was a kid. They're fun. Uh especially opening a pack that you you don't know you you never know what you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

And uh anymore it's like, oh, you get a holographic card, you get a reverse holo. And to most people, those mean nothing to me. I think they're really cool because they're still unique cards. Yeah, and you never know shiny. You never know what you're gonna get in a pack. So, yeah, I got lucky enough that I was able to go and find some at a five below of all places. And they are one of the places that actually impose a strict limit on how many packs a person can buy. Now, in some ways that's great, in other ways it doesn't help too much just because you could have somebody go in with his kids and say, okay, I'm buying five packs for all my ki for each of my kids, buying a five five packs for each kid, and then turn around and just resell those.

unknown 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Sorry, Bobby, I'm not actually letting you have these cards. I'm reselling them to make money so we can pay bills, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

And I understand being in a tight situation where that might need to be the case of oh, spending a little bit to sell turn around and sell a card for more. But I I use for me it's elite trainer boxes or ETBs. Box you can buy where it's got a couple of items for the actual card game, and then it has usually like ten booster packs or ten packs of cards.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Wolves also come in packs.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Indeed. And yes, I know ETBs, I know the whole terminology for everything is confusing. It makes no sense to anybody except those who abbreviated it to make it work. But you could typically buy I I know I remember like a year or two ago, you could go into a store and not have an issue finding one and buy it for like fifty, sixty dollars. The equivalent of buying that amount of just packs of cards. Anymore, you can't find them in stores and any place that's selling them or anybody that's selling them is selling them for at least twice that much. You can't find one for cheaper than a hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Right, and I think that's to me one of the biggest differences um between whether or not this market has gotten to a point that's to use the overused term, toxic, is that it's not just about people buying cards, opening them, and then maybe reselling ones that are rare. It's people are buying the entire packs, the entire boxes, and just holding on to them to resell them because they know by uh absorbing all of the product uh the resellers kind of have become the primary place for people to buy this stuff, and they're not charging remotely fair prices, but people are so desperate to get their hands on them, of course they don't care. It's there's they'll say it's just business, is what it's about. But to me, you know, there's a term, I think it's uh MSRP manufacturer suggested retail price, and it would be nice to be able to acquire some of these things for the MSRP, and I think that's one of the reasons why people are getting so mad right now is you have to go to these resellers to get anything. Um well, I mean, like you said, you can you can find these starter decks, uh, but for anything more than that, you've got to go to these resellers, and it I mean resellers have always been a thing with with uh collectibles. I mean, uh poke not Pokemon cards, baseball cards back in the day. I mean, they've been around forever, they're still around now. And I'm sure they their market has probably gone through ebbs and flows of times where it gets more crazy like this, then goes back to normal. But generally speaking, when I look at the baseball trading card uh market, it it's exactly what I would expect. You can go into a store and buy some baseball cards. You can go into a 7-Eleven, a Walmart, uh, and they're not that hard to find. Uh, and there's still collectors that uh you know go out there and try to find the good ones. Um one of the problems though is a lot of baseball cards gain they they have special ones they make, just like the Pokemon cards where they'll have some rares where they'll have some holographic ones or occasionally a signed one. But some of them gain their value through time, because they'll have what they call rookie cards, where um, you know, the hot players when they just barely start, and getting a a good condition rookie card that's signed by the player is worth a lot if they become a famous player. You know, because there's something inherently valuable about okay, this was just a normal run card given to the world for the sake of every player getting a card, but now this player is more famous, so having something that didn't have value, but now has gained value because of the inside of history is understandable. But for having some things that gain value just for the sake of well, just because we say so, is a little less palatable in my weird opinion.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

No, I I defin it's I wouldn't say it's a weird opinion, I agree with you, because again, I I watched a lot of this card content online on YouTube. And I mean, it was just the other day I saw a v uh it was a video of somebody who bought apparently back in the nineties when, you know, Pokemon was first first coming out, people first started learning what it was, and they did already have some um different card packs and everything. Apparently Costco at one point sold a variety pack of some of the original booster packs of cards in a pack of it came in like I think it was like 10 or 12 mixed packs. So it wasn't just one from one card set, it was like four or five different card sets. And you could buy them for like forty-two dollars and that's with tax.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

They were bought for like forty-two dollars. And the video was basically somebody buying two of these from another person for hundreds, it was like hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. It literally just showed a stack of bills exchanging hands for these cards. And it's what makes them so valuable? Just because they're thirty they're as old as I am? They're well, they're not, but just because they're almost thirty years old or whatever, it automatically makes them more valuable just because it's an unopened package?

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Well, I mean, I think that's not uncommon in the collector's market. It's just the motivation seems different. Because it's one thing if you have like a vintage Star Wars figurine that came out with the original movie, because uh, I mean, Star Wars is popular right away, but um that doesn't mean they got a home run on the merchandise right off the bat. So getting something like from a cultural phenomenon back in the day in mint condition, it's understandable why um collectors of like Star Wars memorabilia would like something like that. But it's a little more confusing when the whole point of these things is to open them up, um supposedly play a game, but um trade them with people, um, and you know, maybe occasionally find your rare cards and keep them in a special place, and um, so well that's that's that's what I mean of you've got people who are willing to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on some of these original packs of cards that yeah, they they're unsealed, but where is that value coming from?

SPEAKER_00 15:36

What makes them hundreds and thousands of dollars when it's literally an unsealed pack of card or it's a sealed pack of cards.

unknown 15:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Cheese. The answer is cheese.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

The silence said it all.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Uh couldn't think of what to say, because um it it's it's all just perception. It's we it's it's this valuable because we say it is. And I think that's one of the things that really I find obnoxious. I should say I find really obnoxious. My grammar is not uh up to par yet.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

I need more caffeine, but is For the record, it's like noon when we're recording this, so it's not like it's early in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Yeah, I've got no excuse. However, um uh tea.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Indeed.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

It's Canadian tea, it's good stuff. But I think what was sort of a tipping point for me is I'm gonna backpit a little bit and say social media can create false perceptions. And like you said, some of these videos that you see out there are potentially staged a lot of the time just for clickbait, rage bait um content. Uh, so the question is, are there a few bad actors making a legitimately decent scene um look bad, or are there actually systematic problems? And for me, I wasn't sure. It's easy to just jump on the this is a big problem bandwagon, but what made the difference for me is when you look at the motivation behind a lot of these videos is they're essentially treating the game like a lottery. And there's some great scratch-off channels out there where you watch people go, they buy lottery tickets, they scratch them off, see if they win anything. That's cool. I mean, it's cool if you have the extra spending money. Don't gamble, kids, if you don't have the money. But people have turned this game into a lottery, you know, to the point that they don't care about whether or not a card even looks nice, whether or not it's their favorite character. Some of them probably don't even care about Pokemon as a franchise as a whole. It's just, oh, this is a lottery. And so when they're opening these packs, they sit there and like, oh, this one's worth this much, this one's worth this much. And it reminds me of the game, not the game, the show, uh oh dang, I don't know what it's called. Is it American Pickers where they go and auction off these uh no, American Pickers is a car show, I think. I don't watch a lot of TV. Uh, but they go to storage units and auction them off.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Storage Wars.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

It's a popular one.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

Yeah. Um I just remember there's a guy who says, yep. But that's beside the point. But one of the things you think is storage wars. But one of the things that drives me bananas about that show is they'll sit there and go through the storage unit and they'll give immediate uh values to some of the stuff in there. And real life doesn't work that way. Because a lot of these people have um like pawn shops and stuff, and they use these storage units as a supply. It's a smart business thing to do. You know, a lot a lot of people flip these storage units, um, and it's great. And uh, you know, so I'm not having any problem with that, you know, that particular uh means of people making a living. I'm sure there's plenty of toxicity in there if you look hard enough, for sure. But it I just always found it funny that they sit there and like, oh look, here's this black and decker electric plug-in-the-wall chainsaw. We can sell that for 50 bucks. Can you? Really? I wouldn't pay 50 bucks for that. If I found that at a thrift store, I I'd pay 10 maybe. So I always found it.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

20 if it's in good condition.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Fair enough, fair enough. Um, but it it's just goofy to me because they sit there and immediately determine whether or not they've made a profit on these storage units by rifling through the stuff and giving their arbitrary values. Now, they've been in these businesses for a while, so one could reasonably think, okay, they they run these shops, they can have a decent idea of how much they can sell something for to an extent, but I don't know. I just always thought it was goofy. It's like, let time tell whether or not that worked out for you. But you know, for the sake of TV, they have to make it look snappy, and people want to know, did you make a profit? Um which they probably will eventually.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

It's uh Yeah, just the eventually part data.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Yeah, but people don't want eventually, dang it. They want they want to know now.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

They want satisfaction and gratitude right now.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

So you uh roll that back around to the Pokemon scene right now, and it's just bazonkers that they're pulling them, like, oh wow, this one's worth five bucks, this one's worth ten bucks, oh this one's worth a hundred bucks, I won the lottery. It's like, well, it's not that simple. It's it's a lottery with extra steps where the values are arbitrary and uh there's less guarantee because you might pull what you think is like, oh, this is a$250 card per se. Well, depending on how you treat it, whether or not you get it um professionally graded, which is um you know, where you send it to these companies who will determine whether or not it's real or fake, and then based on the condition, the rarity um of the card, mm not necessarily rarity, but they they'll give it a grade and say, Okay, this Well it it goes off of rarity, it goes off of condition, and that's not just physical condition, that's also print condition. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Cause 'cause they look at everything ingredient. And if it's if the card face is slightly off centered or the back is slightly off centered. Or it's got a little nick on the corner, it'll lower the grade of that card.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Yeah. Um, and uh I remember my brother was looking into this uh a couple years ago, because uh he has some Yu-Gi-Oh! cards from when they very first released, and apparently he's got a couple of them that are considered decently rare. And you know, he was looking into whether or not he should uh uh get it graded to see about selling it. You know, because that that I don't have a problem with that on the surface. It's it's what you do with collectibles, it's fine. Um, but when you looked into it, the cost of grading something, the upfront cost is really high, especially if it's only a singular item. So for a lot of these cards, it's only worth it if they're getting them graded in large batches. So for somebody who opens up a pack and they pull a card that they think is pretty rare, let's say they think they can get 200 bucks for it. By the time they get it graded, um, you'll be lucky to be out the door$80 to$90 to get that card graded. Unless you get it done locally, if there happens to be a place, but for a lot of the resale market, you have to go with these a few choice official places. And then based on what the card is actually valued at, I mean, they don't give you a value for the card, they just grade it for you. Uh, some places might give you an arbitrary value, but again, that's based on what you've got to find somebody willing to pay that much for it. And if you happen to find somebody who's willing to pay top dollar and you happen to get one that's in perfect condition, and you happen to get a good deal on getting your card graded, then maybe you will make a profit off of it. So if that's your sole motivation, it's really easy to see how that can snowball into just massively intaking cards, because in order to make the grading worth it, uh, you're gonna have to have a lot of cards that have potential value. Uh, and then you're gonna have to find a lot of people in a market that are willing to pay money for it. So um if these were the steps in a normal lottery, I'd know I wouldn't want to participate.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Well my big my big problem with all of it is the quote-unquote market value for a lot of these higher-end cards is yeah, it's it's an arbitrary number of what the card will be worth because it's a rare card. Biggest one I take as an example, uh, for the newer cards, is the Red Victini. Only available in, I think it was like a black and white. It was like the black and white card series. And it's a rare it's a rare card in that series. They only made a couple hundred, I think. I could I that's I guess, don't don't quote me on that. But I believe there were only a few hundred of those cards put out there, so I can understand that one being having a higher market value, but at the same time, you know nobody's going to sit there and go out and sell that kind of card unless they're only doing it or only opening packs to sell high-end cards. And even then you're not gonna have a lot of people I mean, you're gonna have people who are gonna want to get it, but you're not gonna have a lot of supply or d for that card, but the demand will be high.

unknown 26:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

So the market value would go, or the market value price, you're probably not gonna find a card at that price. It's gonna be a lot more expensive because the d quote unquote demand for that card is higher.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Yeah, and I think the ultimate dream of a lot of these collectors is for things to go to an auction where you have multiple people who want to pay money for something you have, and so they're gonna fight about how much they're gonna buy it for and go back and forth. And I haven't looked into it because it's not my thing, but I'm sure they already have auction sites for these cards.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Um, if they don't, people use eBay.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

People still use eBay.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Yeah, believe it or not, that's still a thing. Um but um I just don't see it being uh infinite supply and demand market when it comes to things like those Victini cards you're talking about. Because, okay, let's say they made 200 of them. Throwing out fake numbers, sorry. And they all 200 are found in the wild, and they all have owners somewhere, and they all sell them for the maximum top dollar they can to somebody else who really wants them. Well then where do they go? They're not gonna want to sell them to somebody else unless they pay more for them. And unless you really, really like that Pokemon in particular, you really, really like that card, or you think you can just keep pushing it up in this infinite raising of value resale market, then eventually it's gonna hit a dead end. And if you like the card and you intrinsically think, hooray, I have a rare card, a rare item, a piece of history from this limited run, hooray, congratulations, frame it on your wall, have a nice day. But if you see it as an investment item, then it's eventually gonna lose its value. And if you don't like it, then you've wasted your money. So what's the point?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

See, I appreciate the p the collectors out there who legitimately collect cards because they do enjoy 'em. And what's sad is 90% of those people are kids.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

I I it's it's sad to say it, but like uh adults, though people our age just wanna turn around it seems like don't really want to collect them for the sake of collecting them because they really like 'em. It's more of a oh, let's get all these because they're gonna increase in value.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

And to me it's yeah, okay, they're gonna increase in value because they're gonna be harder to find, I guess. But the value is I I I go I keep going back to origin the original card packs. The value of those packs is arbitrary just because of what it could have in it.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

What it might have in it.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Right, which is different from, like I said, the Star Wars collectors figures where it's you know exactly what you have. You you know what it is right there. You're not paying top dollar because it might be an extra special one, you're paying for what exactly it is. Where in these ones, it's like, well, not all the super rare cards are accounted for, which they never are in these things. It's you know, that's not how the world works. But um you're buying a chance at maybe finding one of these really old rare cards that, like I said, with the baseball cards, have gained value over time because of history. Um, so you're hoping that you'll win this Pokemon lottery with some of these old things, so people are paying stupid amounts of money for 'em.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Well, but this is the thing, though. Ninety percent of the ones uh of those who are paying s who are paying who are selling and buying these older packs aren't even opening them.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

They're they're spending all this money on an original pack for what? Just to say they have an original pack that may or may not contain the first edition Charizard or whatever. It's like you're spending tho hundreds or thousands of dollars on an unopened pack of what more than likely is basic starters.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

And basic first gen Pokemon.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Well, and you look at what the packs are called, they call them booster packs. It's supposed to be cards to supplement your your starter decks. You know, something to help give you extra cards, extra options for when you play the game. Um, but for your scalpy collectors, 99% of what's in those packs is completely worthless because they don't care about cards that alter the way you play the game. They don't care about um a card that might not be the rarest in the world, but might give you an advantage competitively in playing the game well, you know, that means nothing to them. They just want the big shiny ones that are gonna give them lots of money. And so they're pulling a Veruca salt by buying up the entire supply chain so that they can get their golden tickets.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Yeah, it's it's crazy, it's ridiculous. But unfortunately it's it's the way it is right now.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

So, uh a bit of a dog-related delay there. Uh, not that it matters, but uh anyway, so um I think we've said a lot of what we wanted to say in the, dare I call it, the whining part of this, where um it's uh painful for a lot of casual players to be in a situation where the current market makes it so difficult for anybody who's interested in just the game to maybe, you know, heaven's for you know, heaven forbid, actually want to play the game and actually get the cards out and make a deck that you actually shuffle and you know play, but uh uh you know it's made it difficult for anybody who wants to do that. Uh so one of the biggest problems of all, in my opinion, is I actually like the game. Uh I've been an on-again, off-again Pokemon fan for most of my life. Um, you know, skipped a few generations there, sure. But generally speaking, I'm a big fan of the franchise, and uh I have a lot of good memories with the trading card game itself. And um I mean I'm no better than anybody else, especially, you know, when I was a kid, whenever I'd get a holographic, I'd secretly in the back of my mind wonder, ooh, I wonder how much this is worth. But um growing up, I never really went to actually try to sell anything. Um not that it would be bad if I did, because truth be told, um I should say my and my sisters, mostly just my sisters now in Pokemon collection, uh started out from a reseller, if you will. Uh and this was back in the 90s, so it was before the market was what it is today. So it lends some credence to the fact that none of this is necessarily new, and I do have fond memories with uh getting my first few Pokemon cards. Now, my very, very first Pokemon cards were a Weedle and a Bell Sprout that were given to me by a friend at school. And I just remember being so jazzed about that that I I finally got my hands on some of these uh cards. And then it was my mom who went to a a shop. Uh do you know where the Dutch store is? Apparently it was a shop not far from there.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Uh okay then.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Hmm. Not that that means anything to most, but uh we have this little shop uh here that sells uh goods from uh the Netherlands because, you know, can't beat a good authentic gouda or some good Dutch chocolate. It is good stuff. Um but apparently there was a shop around there that um bought and sold goods, and Pokemon was really big at that time. It was uh the the first big boom of the show and the games, both the card game and the electronic games, gaining massive popularity. So I'm sure this market existed to some extent to this uh, you know, the way it is now back then, because my mom, when she got us our first cards, she went to a shop like that. And I don't necessarily have a problem with you know the notion of uh there being shops that let you reap the benefits of them buying a whole bunch. Because yeah, just like anything else, they had their glass case where uh they had their ri more rare cards uh that you could spend a lot more on if you wanted specific cards. Uh, but if you just wanted bulk cards to help you play the game, they sold those too. Um and so my mom went and she bought uh I want to say maybe two hundred some odd cards. Uh and she hid them uh in a couple socks, so they just looked like some random pair of socks in her sock drawer, I believe. Um not that we were sneaky kids that would try and like find stuff like that, but you know, she was uh trying to be clever and creative in the matter, and and she I don't even think she wrapped them, I think we opened them from the socks. And um, I was just so blown away with happiness at that because this is coming from a mother who's working two jobs, um, who loves her kids and never stops. Uh um, but we didn't have a lot to uh look forward to in life, but we also felt like we didn't need a lot to look forward to in life. Um, you know, we we were a very close family, and um that's good warm, fuzzy stuff for another day, sure. My point is that when we got those cards, we weren't expecting anything rare or super valuable, and uh we knew they were just, if you will, hand-me-down cards. Cards that um collectors had gone through, pulled their favorites, pulled what they considered most valuable, and these were kind of just the extra cards. You know, so my mom was able to purchase them for pretty cheap. I seem to think, I don't remember how much she said she spent on them. Maybe she never told us. But we we did go back to that shop because she she did this all um you know unknown unbeknownst to us, and it was only later that she took uh my sister and I and my brother to this shop. Um, and I remember thinking you could buy like a chunk of 50 of these cards for like five bucks or something. Um, you know, it it's it's a good way for the the people running these shops to to try and you know keep themselves going. And I don't know. I look at it and I know that there must have been some of this uh problem some of these problems back then, but of course, as a kid you don't know these things. Uh you just see the cards. And it kind of goes back to what you were saying of uh some of the best collectors that I have the biggest respect for out there are the kids just getting into the game who just want the uh uh the joy of uh playing the game, of collecting different Pokemon. Because, you know, that's the big thing of the game itself, is gotta catch them all, is their big phrase. And you want to see different uh Pokemon, and there's so many of them out there now, so uh people who are some people just try to have a collection where they have one of every type of Pokemon, which that's an undertaking, especially since they're they're making more all the time. Uh as of this recording, I know that there's another game that's gonna be out next year that's gonna release even more new types of Pokemon.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Generation 10. Ah. We've got nine gen so far. I'm pretty sure it's gen 10, because we're at I think we're at nine with a total of 1,025 Pokemon.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Jeez.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

So I think the next one, which is Pokemon Winds and Waves, is supposed to be Gen 10.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Jeez. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

You know, but so I can't 100% hold hatred for like the resale market to a degree because that's what started me in it. But at the same time, I also know when I was a kid, I could go to a 7-Eleven and buy a pack of cards. I could go to um uh I don't know, that's where I remember buying cards as a kid. I'm sure they sold them elsewhere, but that's where I bought them. I don't know where you got them as a kid, but uh Walmart, Kmart, 7-Eleven. If you don't know what Kmart is, look it up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Get them anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

Yeah, so so I don't know. It's it seems like to me, I'd like to believe, and maybe this is completely idealistic, that there could be a situation where you have people who do run these legitimate um collector's shops where you know they go through the trouble of buying a bunch of cards, and if you want specific ones, you can buy specific cards, and if you want uh you know just bulk cards to help you play the actual game, you can get that too. Where at the same time, if you're a regular consumer, you can still go to Walmart, and if you want to blow money on one of those bigger boxes, you can still buy one, or if you just want to buy a couple packs, you can do that. Whereas right now, the market is mostly just the resellers, and so you're completely at their mercy. There's plenty of them that are legitimate out there, and it's one of the reasons why, you know, I'm trying not to crap on this too much because I know that there's people out there just running decent businesses and letting uh helping people start their collections with some of their secondary cards and stuff. But then there's the Veruca Salts out there that are making it just impossible for a lot of people to start this. And as an adult, I can be content with not having a big Pokemon card collection. That's fine. I'm glad we were able to get our hands on some, but I didn't feel um dejected that we didn't get any super rare cards. Um for me, I'm like, ooh, a cute Pokemon! Yay!

SPEAKER_00 42:57

I mean, for me, I I agree with you. I do like that there is something about the the thrill of hunting for the rare cards, but at the same time, I'm not gonna go and spend$200 on a pack of a box of ten booster packs with the hopes of getting a rare card. Honestly, I've I I've got I think before like all the craziness of nowadays Pokemon card market, when you were able to get packs in plenty at Walmart or Target or any store like that, I remember I was buying a couple packs here and there. And I know for a fact that in my collection of cards, I have at least one gold Pokemon card. Could I tell you what it is? No, because it was it didn't it to me it wasn't that special. It's like, oh, fancy, a different card.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

Neat.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

But if I was given the choice. Between having uh a gold Pokemon card or the red, rare red Victini Pokemon card. I'd rather take an illustrated card for Pokemon I like, like Growlithe or Arcanine or an Eevee Lucian. I'd rather take an art card of that than these super rare cards.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

Right, because I'm not even s I know what a Victini kind of is, I kinda know what it looks like, but it's probably from one of those generations I never played the game from. So to me, it's like I'm not that fond of that particular Pokemon.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

So if I got it's hard to see them.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

If if you've for anybody who hasn't seen them, just just Google it. Gold Pokemon cards or red Victini. You can't really tell the Pokemon. It it's outlined, but the entire card is red. The Pokemon itself is red. The type everything about the card is red. The only reason that you can tell what it is is because it's slightly different shades of red.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

Which is the lesser novel that didn't quite make uh I mean it's the same with the we're not going there.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

It's the same with the gold cards. Is you can tell what it is, but it's a full it's as is implied, either a fully gold card or it's the red card. And yay for collectability, but at the same time it's it's a fully singular singular colored card.

SPEAKER_03 45:40

Yeah, it's a little goofy.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

I'd rather take the art cards, the full art or the full art cards, because at least those you can tell a lot more creativity and thought went into it instead of oh, let's just make it fully red or let's just make it fully gold, because that's cool, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

Yeah, I mean when I was a kid, just having a holographic card was cool. But now apparently that's not cool enough. You know, uh now now the whole dang card's gotta be able to reflect so much sunlight that you can burn your retinas with it.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

Well, I wouldn't go that far with it, but Yeah, but but I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

Intrinsically, like mathematically, I understand why they're quote unquote valuable, because they're rare. But intrinsically, they're not great, I think is what you're getting down to.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Again, I watch a lot of the card uh a lot of these card videos online, and I don't think I've ever seen anybody go up to uh a Pokemon vendor at at one of these card shows and say, Oh yeah, I'm specifically looking for this gold Pokemon card or I'm specifically looking for the red Vic Pini or No, it's oh I'm specifically looking for this Pokemon.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

Whether that's an art version of the card, uh or whatever, it's they're specifically looking for this Pokemon, not a specific rare card, it's just specific ones. Which, let's be honest, that would that would probably be me.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

I'd be going to a show looking for specifically canine Pokemon or or the Evolution cards, which did Yeah, so much controversial on if they're cats or dogs.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

They're Pokemon.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

So if they resemble cats or dogs, how's that?

SPEAKER_03 47:36

Yeah, well, that bothered me in the uh in the third generation with Entei, because to me I always thought Entei was a uh a cat because it looks like a lion, but apparently he's supposed to be a dog. Which I can kind of see. He's got a bit of a smashed face, like some of these overbred uh um toy dogs.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

Yeah, but then what would you consider Raiko?

SPEAKER_03 47:58

A cat. Yeah. Oh, you mean like if I've if if I'm forced to see it as a dog?

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Um well no, i i because they're all supposed to be the same, just different variants of because they're all similar in structure. So they're either all supposed to be cats or all supposed to be dogs. You can't argue the fact that Entei is a dog, because to me you look more like a lion.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

He always looked like a lion. I think even in the movie they gave him like a lion's roar, so they're not helping their own case.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

But to claim that Entei is supposed to be a dog and they're all supposed because that was that's the thing with a lot of the original legendaries, is they were all very similar in the type of Pokemon they were, i.e. the legendary birds, legendary dogs, so on and so forth. But you can't classify Raico as a dog. He's got giant saber-tooth fangs. You can't classify Raikou as a dog.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Well, I mean uh We're getting off topic, but are we though? Because this is what's important, dang it. Oh. But which Suicune doesn't look anything like uh Entei or Raikow, so how are they supposed to be in the same camp? Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

I always got the impression they were supposed to be in that same kind of category.

SPEAKER_03 49:26

Well, I think that's the intention, but like Entei, Raikou, Raikau, how are we supposed to say it?

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Um Raikau.

SPEAKER_03 49:33

Well, it's it's it's the it's the beef version, okay? They look similar. Uh if you said okay, they're brothers, I I'd buy that. But then Suicune is like a completely different body shape, still a quadruped, which hooray for a legendary being a quadruped. Pokemon bipedal is not automatically cool. It's not automatically better. Knock it off.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Don't do it with pompon, otherwise we're gonna have issues.

SPEAKER_03 50:00

Yeah, see, that's another thing. Charmander's the only one who like he starts as a biped, stays as a biped, he gains wings, turns into a non-dragon type dragon. He's cool. I can buy that. Squirtle to Blastoise, biped stays biped. He's a turtle. I I'll buy it. Um but Bulbasaur stays quadruped all the way up to his third evolution. Why do they find it so necessary to make everything bipedal nowadays when they evolve? It's like, dude, stop it.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

They should have kept and the biggest example of that is Lytton.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

They did Lytton dirty. A lot of people like Lytton's Fully Evolved 4, which is what Incineroar. Yeah, I think Lytton's base evolu Lytton's as a base Pokemon is a quadruped. Lyton's second evolution is a quadruped.

SPEAKER_03 51:05

So close, guys. So close.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

And then they mixed it up by turning you into a bipedal large fighting cat.

SPEAKER_03 51:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah, skirt it up, Pokemon. Yeah, skirt it up.

SPEAKER_03 51:17

I mean, if you're a fan of luchadors, I can kind of see somebody finding that appealing, but I sure don't, because I'm sure not, so Yeah, just judgment.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

I scowl at you. Uh I mean, I I get it. A lot of people think, oh yeah, it's so cool. But come on, just have you did it with the first one. I can't think of any other gen that actually kept a quadruped starter as a quadruped.

SPEAKER_03 51:51

Yeah. We'll Google it later. Maybe there's some out there. But to me, that's always cooler. I get where they're coming from to an extent, because like, oh, evolution. When when humans evolved, we we started walking on two feet. Well, that's because we needed to use our hands. Why do these fighting creatures, unless they're like punching each other, which I guess they can, um, it it doesn't necess doesn't necessarily mean it's a evolutionary advantage, because episode of Star Trek Voyager that's always bothered me, um, they had these creatures on another planet that apparently uh evolved from Oh. Flippadoo. Oh, there's another episode of Voyager that bothers me for the exact same reason. Um anyway, they evolved from a dinosaur from Earth. And when they're holodecking, trying to figure this out, the captain says, like, oh, show what this creature would look like if it evolved for X so many million years. It's like, um, you're making evolution sound like it's all converging to a very specific path, a very specific point, when creatures evolve different traits to solve different problems. So it doesn't make any sense that, like, oh, everything's gonna evolve to do this. Now, if everything was evolving to be creatures that ran starships, and so they all needed to have their hands free, then sure, bipedal would make sense for that. But we've had creatures evolving for millions of years alongside of us, and there's a lot of them that are better at things than we are in so many ways, but still walk on four feet. I don't know why this gets me so much. It just bothers me that they like, oh, in order for it to be better, it has to look humanoid. It's like, stop it. It does not. And don't even get me started about the stupid giant robots that's so inefficient. It's such a bad way to We're getting off topic. Well, just the to make it stand up in the first place is gonna waste so much energy. Anyway, none of this is important. Um, none of what he's supposed to be important, but oh, but to roll it back to the whole Pokemon situation. The question is, can we fix it? No, we can't. Um Bye. See you next time.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

I mean The only way to fix it is to stop feeding into it.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Well, yeah, it's definitely a bubble or a balloon, however you want to view it, because the extreme value that's being put in a lot of this is completely artificial. And like any other balloon bubble market, I'm not an economist, I don't know the proper term for it. But whenever value gets out of control, eventually gets to a point where nobody's willing to buy, and it collapses back down to its actual intrinsic value. And the hope for a lot of people, I think, is they want to see the bubble burst. They want to see the everyday consumer be able to just walk into a retailer and buy some dang cards if they want. But there's so much fear in these scalpers that if they don't buy every box, they're gonna miss the one that has the super valuable card that they can um sell really high. Or even that if they don't buy them all, then people can just go to another retailer and buy a pack when if none are available, they can double the price and people are still gonna be willing to buy it. But you know, their motivation to do this will always be there as long as uh people as long as there's buyers, you know, follow the money. That's how any uh how you get down to the bottom of anything is they're only doing it because it's profitable, and it's unfortunate because it's gotten into something that's been a part of my life for uh most of it. And I'm sad to see it so bonkers right now. I do think some of it is inflated online for views and stuff. Um but I'd like to see it get back to you know, to pull it to uh game you mentioned earlier, Magic. Which you can tell I don't play magic because I called it magic. So Magic Magic or MTG. But magic has its super rare cards, magic has its store, you know, you you can go to places and buy the rare cards and um you get them graded like anything else. But every person, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I mean you can't correct for my own life, but maybe you have an example in yours. Every person I've encountered who is a fan of the game Magic or MTG Magic the Gathering, whatever, I'm just gonna call it Magic, um, they play the game. They actually build decks for the express purpose of playing the game. Now that doesn't mean they don't have some extra rare cards, they might just stick a s you know a side somewhere that they don't actually put in a working deck. But I've yet to encounter somebody in that particular community who is quite basonkers as a lot of the scalpy people I see online with Pokemon right now. So it gives me some hope that if this bubble does burst, um, that the game can exist in a way that it's still popular, uh, still has its super valuable golden tickets that people can uh can want after and uh sell for the highest dollar if they so choose. But that the majority of the people involved are those that really just enjoy the game intrinsically for what it's supposed to be. And I don't know how to get it to that point. It's probably honestly just a matter of time. It's just gonna take time for a lot of these false values to trickle their way through the market before it deflates to where it belongs. And once it turns into something that isn't um an infinitely scalable valuable, then the scalpers are gonna move on to something else that they can squeeze every penny out of. So, I mean, in the in the meantime, uh, I think some ways to support that would be uh, you know, find local communities and encourage actual, you know, look look for people who actually play the game and maybe try to make social media content that's glamorizing the playing of the game, the enjoyment of, you know, collecting for the sake of uh getting cards you want, not because somebody online told you it's worth a lot of money, but because it's your favorite character. Or because, like I said, you're putting together a deck and you really just want certain cards that go well together to make uh your chances of winning a game a lot higher. If we start to see more content promoting that instead of content that's just promoting this pseudo-lottery, then uh I think it'll help fuel the fire in the right direction. Because, unfortunately, if scalpers get views online, they get enough views they get money from that too, so it's just further incentive to keep doing what they're doing. So uh, I mean that's the only ways I can think is, you know, sit and wait and support the good guys. Because there are good people out there that are buying and selling the cards right now. Um, and there are good people out there that are just collecting them just for fun, just for uh looking for the certain types. Um I just think they're being drowned out right now with uh all of this lottery style video.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

You're not wrong.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:06

And but until then, I'm still gonna hold on to the few cards I have, not because I'm expecting them to grow in value and uh buy me a mansion someday, but just because I actually like these silly little Pokemon. Uh at the end of the day, it's a very cute franchise. And I'm a sucker for all things that are cute. Maybe that's why I don't like the bipedal Pokemon, because to me they're not cute. They look silly.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Yeah, fair enough. There's some there are some that get passes. Not many, but some.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:45

Yeah, I can dig Lucario. I mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Probably because he reminds me of, you know, Anubis. Although don't hug Lucario because he's got a spike in his chest, and if you hug him, he's gonna impale you in the heart, so plus the reason to mind one game, he's named Vlad. Ladziambela.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:04

Indeed.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:05

Oh. But for anybody who this happens to reach, um, what's your thoughts on Pokemon? Either the franchise as a whole or the trading card game. Is the situation we're in right now, is it inevitable? Is it just the way it's always been, and it just has more attention right now, or is it something that we really need to fix somehow? Even if it's just through sitting and waiting and letting the real fans be the ones who weather the storm and uh see where it goes. Which that's a whole nother topic in itself is what is a real fan? That's a that's a can of worms.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

It's something that moves air. You asked.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:55

How does how does a can move air?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

You said f you asked what the definition of a real fan is. Oh you you said that the topic for another day is what is a real fan. A fan is something that moves air.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

Okay, yeah, fair enough. Oh well, yeah. That went right over my head.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

But for what it's worth, um no, the the the Jay the joke was faithful really.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

Indeed. But for what it's worth, um that's our thoughts on Pokemon. Um it's a franchise I don't I don't see walking away from. Uh it doesn't mean I'm gonna invest in all the craziest parts of it, but it's been part of my life for most of my life, and uh uh probably will continue to be so. I have no apologies, even though I'm supposed to be an adult and not play the kids' game. I mean, says who, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

But are you kidding? After we're done recording, I'm gonna go play Pokopia. I'll admit I'm a huge Pokemon game fan. Am I gonna spend thousands of dollars just to get clicked cards of the Pokemon I like? Probably not, because one, I don't have that much disposable income, and two, I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars on a piece of paper. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Will I spend the six to ten bucks for like booster packs and such just because they're f fun to open? Yeah, sure, why not? I'm not gonna like you said, I'm not gonna spend thousands of dollars for two cards or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:35

That's insanity. Leave it to the rich, weird people.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

I mean Yeah, leave it to the people with way too much disposable income.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:45

Yeah. And I'll just do what makes me happy. So, to each their own.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

It's all you can do in life.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:52

Indeed. But I think for now, uh we've said our piece, and I hope the rest of you out there in the real world are having a lovely day. And we hope to see you uh That was the wrong button. We so hope to see you bark next week, where we'll talk about yet something else. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

Enjoy your week.